I have a scar l with an apache, m115 spring and o ring that i can never get to feed reliably. I have tried both springs in the apache, different types of gels, controlled grow, full grow and even tried both the nylon p mags and metal type mags for it. About ready to chuck it at a wall. Does anyone have any advice for me? So annoying to have such an expensive blaster not function when my janky old J9 and my $199 wells run fine.
1 Like
Welcome Hughes. I know nothing about the Apache besides throw that expensive shit in the bin by some friends that tried it.
Have you tried email or contact Brent from Azraels to help set it up? He’s always been forthcoming and easy to talk to in my experience. Be my first port of call.
Hopefully some others will chime in with experience. Good luck!
Definitely get in contact with AZRAEL’s.
They are very helpful with providing product advice for their customers.
I had a couple of APACHE Tappetless heads, but never got the chance to use them as the WA bans hit shortly after 
I do recall that the distancing/spacing of the nozzle rubber seemed to be the main issue, as to why AZRAEL’s went on to develop the adjustable t-piece to try and overcome the issues.
I think I still have one of those t-pieces new in a box somewhere, but was the very first release/design and still required extra o-rings to get the nozzle spacing correct.
Did it feed prior to apache? I replace the wires in cyma mags way too often, and highly recommend doing it, usually turns them into a half decent mag.
Ditch the apache is good advice imo. I have a cyma metal box reliably feeding and sealing 36rps 350fps on a shortened stronger return spring with the tappet plate trimmed to just clear the sector gear shaft.
1 Like
I did follow the fitting instructions. Maybe i will give them a call. The only thing i can think of is because it relies on pressure having a ported cylinder could be hurting it.
It did used to feed before the apache but was kind of picky with gels, it liked the AT pearls.
When you say you replace the wires do you mean put something in?
Thanks
1 Like
No, just replace the cheap shite wires and soldering with decent wiring and joins.
Hey…… nothing wrong with that dull and dry flat grey looking Chinese Soldering!
Sworry boss but not enough heat and lead in the pencil. What sheap shat 
1 Like
open the mag, and replace the wires from the mag motor to the terminal. I usually use the wire stripped out of network cables as I have loads of it I will never use. Works well and fixes most cyma mags. Cyma mags usually handle upto about 30rps fine when working well.
1 Like
Also the worm drive gear is usually on backwards and sitting too far back (close to the motor) then hot glue the motor in to stop them from jumping 
Definitely what Mutha said 
Had to do just that on about 75% of my mags. Now I just about do it as a matter of course with any new mag.
1 Like
Yeah will try pulling the apache out first. I not long ago sold my cyma m4 to a mate and gave him one of the p mag style mags with it and he went to a game and it worked flawlessly he said so I’m leaning towards it being the apache.
I’m going to ring azraels and ask them whether they think it needs a full cylinder to work effectively because the scar does have a ported cylinder.
1 Like
Might have something to do with the ported cylinder not allowing enough space/vacuum to operate the APACHE fully…… but I honestly didn’t get time to fit and fiddle with the ones I had, so just uneducated guesswork from me!
@RokSolid or @Jas are probably better people to chime in and give some more educated advice 
From memory, the porting in them stock is a little toward under volumed side. Apache needs to be a bit over volumed. I used to change them to an 80% cylinder, or full with a bit of short stroking depending on the build. What other parts have you changed apart from m115 spring and apache? also what brand is the spring?
I did the apache first and it seemed to shoot ok with the ausgel pearls but it wasn’t hitting as hard. Then i changed to the spring believing the apache was robbing some of the air pressure away. I believe it is an ASG brand.
Then i went to a game and had feeding issues and noticed the nozzle was very slowly returning to it’s position so I then swapped the spring in the apache to see if it helped.
Try an m130 spring. Also the o’ring on piston head is loose and no vacuum. How much does your nozzle protrude into the feed tube of tpeice? Saw a video from either shakka or azraels saying you wanted a little protrusion past the feed tube to seal properly/ Pic of 3rd edition nozzle protrusion in an azrael adjustable tpiece. Has dimple from drill bit added : Rattler feed mod 
Simple fix!
Get rid of the useless bloody Apache
2 Likes
They were great in theory and looked great on the Chalkboard…… but in practice, lots of fiddly small moving parts, springs, o-rings etc make setting up, fine tuning, reliability and maintenance exponentially more difficult than the basic old simple two component system that it replaced.
I always was baffled about the design myself, as to how much swept volume the design took out of the piston in operation, but there was many people who managed to make them work with decent FPS and RPS numbers from them.
The adjustable T-Piece was a necessary design to help with many nozzle sealing /feeding issues that were common at the beginning, but that’s common with any new first release components in any industry!
I had a box full of the different cheap overseas knockoff Tappetless Piston Heads, and also one of those full blown Red or Blue Alloy Cylinder complete Tappetless Systems when they were first released, which would be interesting to know if anyone else here had any of these and if they had any success with them compared to the APACHE?
1 Like
Hey mate, I have a M4 build (metal CYMA gearbox, orange CYMA nylon t-piece, 13:1, M110 and apache in an iHobby M4 receiver). I put one o-ring with on the apache nozzle and it is feeding fine. Maybe try that setup i.e. orange nylon t-piece+1x apache o-ring with the metal gearbox? (assuming the orange nylon t-piece works in your SCAR)
Yeah when i get around to pulling it down I may try that set up first. I did two o rings as thats what was stated on their website. I believe my t-piece is black but I’m fairly certain they’re the same